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Prestanda.
Hej !
Jag fick respons på starb. forum ang. ett gammalt långt inlägg “the fastest board” som jag skrev 2001
Är du intresserad säger jag var så god..date 4/7/2005 1:28:00 AM
message I marked this post in a notebook to see where we have come over the last few years. I enjoyed the exchange almost 4 years ago, so let’s see where we stand:We (really Finian, but I like to think all of us were there sailing with him and all the boys) finally recaptured the title of fastest. Nuff said.
FW rose to high heights. The new boards perform so much better than the first models, yet those first boards still offer some exciting rides, testament to the hard work of the designers and shapers. A. Albeau managed his wins on a 3-year old design (the AHD 98NT, a board I own and LOVE). Pretty fast around the course, at least!
Fast sailing has FINALLY come to the masses. Linking the gusts, minimizing the schlogg, making more smiles more of the time.
Finally, GPS is everywhere. Speedometers on your wrist. If these don’t make the quest for personal speed a reality, I’ll be pretty suprised.
Some other Dan over at Gaastra said it as his introductory post: “Windsurfing is on fire!” He’s right.
Ulf, if you’re out there, what are your thoughts?
-Dan
from Dan ( )date 4/8/2005 1:19:06 AM
message This whole M course racing concept would suit 1 board i can think of Perfectly :Introducing the HYPERSONIC RACING class – tactical upwind combined with speed reaching – This would be great for all brands Hypersonic style boards (and wide slaloms similar to sonic 125).
IS THIS AN EXCITING CONCEPT OR WHAT !?
from Matt H (matt@auswind.com.au )
date 4/8/2005 8:59:21 AM
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Gotta agree w/that; I bear off & blast down the trenches most of the time when I’m goofing around on my Formula. It takes time to build confidence and learn how to set up, but bearing off @ high speed on the beam in big swell & chop is a gas.from kurt ( )
date 4/25/2005 11:05:23 AM
message Hello Dan, and all of you who love efficient stuff and speed.Four years ago I was hoping Finian to break Yellow Pages, -now he´s done that, and 10/4 he made a fantastic achievement with even higher speeds (48,7 knots). -Speed is back!
Even though my custom speedboards ( 45cm and 38cm wide) seldom get wet, it´s very satisfying to have then on stand by, for the extreme days when my custom Windtech ( 51,2 cm wide) with 28-fin, feels big.
On the other hand, -my Starboard F175, RRD monster ( 85cm wide, no cut outs, flat rockered; good for flat waters and gusty light winds, doing Duck jibes, Backwind jibes and so on, -or having my little son sitting in front of the mast planing), Roberts 25 flapper or Fanatic falcon, -are the boards giving me speed and fun, in different conditions, on a every day basis.
Last 4 years we´ve seen more from slaloms, even a adjustable downhaul is out there. -Vilket jag hoppades på när jag skrev inlägget 2001.
I think it´s nice to see Wojtek, with 9,8 m2, holding off racers with bigger sails, by focusing on low drag trim. Wojtek is actually up to impressive speeds on the runs, even in competition with VMG in focus.
My personal preference, to have a specific board for each and every situation I like to sail in, gives variety and satisfaction for me. But this isn´t the way to go for a FW-racer, who has to be perfectly set up in wide spectra ot conditions, with just one board, to win.
Last summer I had my F175 for a long dry out and repair job, after an accident, where a local sailor tried it and split the nose. -Lots of TOW with weeks in succession on the RRD had made me perfectly tuned in. My feel for speed and manouvres was automatizated on the RRD, and when it was time to sail my repaired F175 later that summer, the timing was gone. -Planing out of jibes, even Duck jibes ( with 9,0 m2) was OK, but the quick tacks where out of whack, because of the lower booms, flatter scoop/ rocker curve, different distance between frontstraps and mast foot, I´d been used to, for a long time.
You could say: The fastest board is the one you have the most TOW on , -as long as the conditions suits that shape. -TOW, trim, bodyweight, skill and strenght are more important factors, than most people are aware of, when we´re talking speed. -As you say Dan, -Albeau managed to win on a 3 years old design. -New boards isn´t always the only way to be fast. -That said, -going for the F159, S125 and S100 in the Starboard line, -you´d be very fast in a big window of conditions and angles.
The new short Starboard FW-“frisbees” impresses me in the right conditions.
My friend (Starboard team rider) Kristian Olsen (N110) visited me, before his trip to Leba Poland last summer. -Focus on FW, perfect trim, good skills and a fit body has put him on top of the podium in the nationals, and he´s very fast on all points off sail, on his FW stuff. -He has recorded 32,8 knots on his GPS , with F158/ Nitro 11 m2, -very impressive! -Even if a possible current boosted this GPS number to a certain extent ( hard to say). I can with my own eyes veryfy that, flying on the fin, with the new short (low swing weight) FW designs, is a very effective way of sailing, in the most common conditions a real world sailor will encounter.Today you can get efficient boards for every direction, and all different conditions, you´ll sail in. -Maybe gusty 2-6 m/s still don´t have a fully developed board..
Windsurfboards is some of the fastest sailcrafts on water in all winds over 3 m/s (depending on direction of sail and sea state).
Pushing that boundary further down, seems hard to do. (I don´t want to go back to my old 16 kg heavy F2 lightning,
which is faster than a FW in 2 m/s, but a lot slower in 6 m/s. -I don´t know, but I think the new olympic board is too heavy for me, -and the nostalgics, still talking in positive words of their div 2 boards, haven´t got me hooked, -but who knows, specialized displacement boards may come back in the future. -I just don´t see them faster than the sailboats, and cats, -so I think I´ll stick to my FW stuff and my board- and sailhandling tricks, the moments I drop off the plane.
If my FW gear won´t plane, I don´t say no to some other activity.
-Am I a windsnob?.. I hope not so!
-Actually it would be nice to try out a hybrid, -and if I had a light div 2 in my backyard, -I´m shure I´d take it out “for a spin” some days.
-Soon Starboard will have the “all time high” product for gusty 2-6 m/s.
Instead of heavy c-b systems giving swingweight-, trimproblems and a cluttered deck, I´d like to see the folding fin.
The folding fin (search in this forum) give low swing weight, low drag, good trim variables and a clean deck.
The folding fin gives accession to shallow waters and it folds (don´t break) if you touch the ground.Matt H, I think you´re on the right track, -just do whatever you want on your local scene, I just hope you´ll welcome the F and FT boards in your fun!
The best things use to happend when you´re having as much fun as possible.Kurt; up/down, fig 8, downwind slalom, freestyle, wave sailing, a brief moment of blasting speeds on a speedboard, long distance racing or freeriding with friends, -everything you can do on your boards ( boats, cats) is very much fun! -As long as the producers keep delivering stuff, making us extract the most from our local spots
Starboard´s lineup is great!
Not challenging Missile ( Dave and Finian ) may be the right decision in a small market. (-Where do you find a team sailor with the potential to beat those giants? -Is the invested time and money worth a broken 50 knots or a new prod. world record? -When most speed heads already have their customs, and the wind seldom blows 35+ in most places). -We´ll see, maybe Starboard will come up with a highwind speedboard for the masses, -who actually can pick a small sonic, and have the blast of their lives.Nice to hear from you and your love Dan!
I love my FW stuff too!
Have fun everyone!
Ulffrom Ulf Astrom ( )
date 5/4/2005 5:38:46 AM
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The fastest board is the one driven by the fastest sailor, -because he/she knows what to choose in different conditions, provided that there is fast boards to select.Feeling fast isn´t the same as sailing fast, -but if you sail a lot it can be.
Dan, -FW stuff can hold off faster kit by luffing or going deep, but by doing that, someone else on faster equipment would pass by on a figure 8, or DW slalom course.
So a FW kit against a couple of race slalom boards, is a winning concept only when the smaller stuff isn´t fully powered, dropping off the plane, or driven by slower sailors.Both you and I have seen Bringdal, Dunkerbeck and Albeau overtake other world class sailors on a slalom course.
When people don´t have world class skills, and mistakes is common in the jibes, overtaking is a lot easier.Dan, why do you persist with your dictum “slalom is a parade” ?
Formula one car racing is no parade. Speeds are high. Thrilled spectators and fast drivers like what they are doing.
Dan, do you agree that the word parade mirror a negative attitude, that wont promote the sport holistically?
Even if some racers prefer I-sourses, we should not discourage all those who like the long distance slaloms in France!
Have fun! -Ulf
from Ulf Astrom
UlfÅ
Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:00 pm Post subject:
Hi Matt! Did you read this message from me 2003!
Regards! Ulfsubject Try this with FW- and FF-boards
date 11/21/2003 6:17:08 AM
message Something I wrote to Anne Adair, who´s trying to implement more speed (reaching) into racing, on the gaastra forum. -UlfMember posted 10 November 2003 11:38 AM
Hi Anne.
Keep up your good work, -but keep it simple.
As everybody knows, on a I-course (up/down) in 10 knots, the FW easily wins over a FF, -wich have good chances in a fig.-8 with 12 knots of wind against the FW.
To level things out, where I live and sail most of the time, we do a (modified olympic) triangle course:
Starts with a short upwind (100-400m, depending on windstrenght, -less wind = shorter upwind leg)
Turn left at the upwind mark, for a 1000-1500m beam reach, jibe at the reach mark, and then broad reach, absolutely top-speed to the finish line=starting line. (With more wind you can do two laps)
There is no collisions what so ever!
-Just three bouys!
-Never any sailors coming from different directions rounding a bouy.
The FW usually takes the lead upwind, but because it´s so short , the narrower boards sometimes catches up on the rest of the course, where it´s exiting, tactically, for the FW´s to keep the leed by luffing the speedsters coming up from behind, giving them dirty air and thrilling challenge.
For the people with not so competetive gear, it´s much more fun to have lots of short races, instead of just a couple of long races, where they´re left far behind.
To make it even more fun, you can (every other race/heat) go clockwise:
-starting pointing up to the “reach mark”, turning right for the beam reach to the “upwind mark”, where you have a short down-wind to the finish (=starting line)
This way you get maximum variabled sailing out of just three bouys! (-Short up/downs, both port and starboard tacks and gybes, actionpacked racing without collisions, the newbees get a smell of up/down, without being intimidated)
By just moving the start bouy, shortening the upwind (/downwind) leg in less wind, you get the key, to level chances out for the FW- and the FF -sailors.
After the regatta you let the sailor give feedback on what courses was most fun, and you´ll see that over time you´ll be able to meet the need perfectly with adequate courses.
If you have lots of very skilled FW racers, mixed with intermediates on slow boards, let the FW-class do a extra up/down at the end of the three bouy course.
This way waiting for the last one to finish is minimized for the extremely skilled people, maximixing TOW racing for everybody during the regatta.
My focus is attracting new people to racing, lifting the fun factor for those already into racing.
The three bouy course is very easy to set out, and to memorize for the racers, -too many times we´ve seen WC racers going for the wrong bouy in overcomplicated courses, -no need for that in the future.
On the three bouy course it´s easy for the spectators to see who´s in the leed, and the speeds are kept very high, to the benefit for everyone.
Keep it simple.
And good luck with your important mission Anne!
Have fun!
Ulf.Astrom@skola.skelleftea.seGeoff
Member posted 11 November 2003 02:33 AM
I have to say that what Ulf says makes a lot of sense.Ulf is right. Triangle courses; alternate directions per heat, so that sailors who are better on port or starboard aren’t favored; 1 lap for novices, 2 laps for intermediates, 4 laps for experts. If you do more than this, you’re making the courses too complicated and overlooking the FACT that the most important thing is that it be close racing.
That’s my opinion or course layout.
GEMAnne FL-6
Member posted 11 November 2003 11:59 AM
Hi Ulf and Geoff, Great input guys! The simple triangle course sounds good and I like the idea of reversing the course between heats. -Anne.OK Matt, -have a lot of fun!
I´ve loved these courses for years, hope you do too.
from Ulf Astrom ( )date 4/25/2005 4:15:25 PM
message Those triangle-courses sound nice indeed.Also, why have elimination-rounds? Here in Holland, we have two big events (The Real Trip and The Mission), where we start in groups of 15, 20 or 30. The starting-line does become a bit longer if it’s a normal down-wind slalom start.
Just one big downwind slalom, a bit busy at the buoy’s, but that doesn’t really matter. The guys in front might fall, and you only have to make a slightly bigger turn.
This type or racing has proven to be competitive for all kinds of boards. Last year, I was on a SB Youth 156 with 55 cm fin and 9.9, blasting around against an exocet freestyle board and a bic slalom-board. Even boards 10 years old were competing with good results. (never underestimate a 1996 Thommen…)
At local events, we typically have 20 competitors. Most of them a bit more experienced. Then we can actually still sail a figure 8, with SB/BB rule effecitve no problems at all. Mostly, we do 2 laps with legs of about 300 meters. 4 heats started back to back, lunch, another 4 heats, and you really have a fun time sailing.
from Jan Willem NED110 (jw.eckhardt@wanadoo.nl )Back to top
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1 Svar
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Mer respons..
Hi Ulf:
True, big boards don’t hold the top speeds on a reach and one board can never hold off an entire heat of faster boards. Well, almost never. Going deep for speed then coming back up from below can scare the heck out of racers bearing down. That’s a technique Phil McGain and others used when faced with a faster group of sailors.
You point about the faster boards always catching the slower boards (given enough time) sort of makes my point about slalom being a bit of a parade. Of course, everyone loves a parade!
Seriously, when slalom was more prevelent the most common criticism was that the race was only to the first mark. Other than the occasional blown jibe, all the racers began to string out along the course, more so on long legs than shorter. The leader shoots off in clear air, enjoys flater water at the jibe marks and extends his or her lead. Everyone else sails more slowly and almost never catches the leader at the first mark. Ulf, you named some of the fastest windsurfers ever. These guys could catch almost any pro. Dunkie was so unconsciously fast that he finished almost 2 legs ahead on some of the longer courses!Holistically, I think we should enjoy windsurfing in as many ways as we can imagine. If people prefer downwind slalom, great. Figure-8,-Terrific. Its all good as long as people enjoy themselves. My comments about slalom come with the best intentions. Just a free exchange of thoughts on the matter.
-Dan
from Dan ( )date 5/4/2005 2:20:50 PM
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Good post, I’ve been reading since the original post.
I agree speeds are not all that different, but jibing technique and retaining speed, as well as block passing and stealing air, is the key to getting back up to top speed after each mark.
Still, after sailing for 22 years, working on replicating the perfect jibe.
I know, I’m retarded.
from LeeD ( )date 5/4/2005 2:30:28 PM
message There is much to be said about circle and figure 8 as the courses can be simple to set up. If the group to race is like those of us here and existing formula racers, it all makes sense.
If goal is our club for us join if you wish, it will be slow growth, maybe a bit of fall of, but the hard core may enjoy.
Meanwhile other sports are ALL making their formats more excxiting for the spectator and they get lots of spectators. Setup and admin requires more. help. More exciting formats will help growth and especially grow youth.Downwind slalom drew crowds here in the Gorge, and racing was easy to follow.
Individula fleets should discuss and vote on what they like and seek to achieve. Various formats have various features
Bill
from Bill (bill@gsport.com )date 5/9/2005 8:45:29 AM
message Hi Dan!
If that´s your interpretation of the (in my world slow and dull) word parade, we can drop that subject. It´s great to have a chat with you dan!
LeeD, -I´ve read soooo many posts from you on the forums, -you´re amazing LeeD! -I don´t understand where you get the time to boost windsurfing the way you do. -Keep up your good work LeeD! -I started younger than you, -but both you and I have sailed a long time.
Yeah LeeD, different jibes on different boards can keep your interest up forever, -the variables are so nice to explore. Some time in lifespan, you´ve done a (almost) perfect Backwind Jibe, Duck Jibe, Flip 360, Heli Tack (or whatever the manouvers in your repertoire are) -the rest of your life is dedicated to perfect them even more, or to do those perfect ones again and again..
Until next time..Have Fun! -Ulf
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